Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[cclark9588]

Discussion was had tonight concerning the possibility of having the juniors division play on an 80' field for half the season and the 90' thereafter including during the wood bat tournament.  Pitcher's mound would be set at 54'.  Using these dimensions are allowed for regular season play but come tournament time, it's all on 90'.

Some argue it's the only way to go in order to at least attempt to stem the tide of players leaving LL to play Pony/Koufax, etc.  Others argue that it really makes no sense to do this as it puts those teams at a disadvantage come tournament time because they've been playing half, or more, of their season on a short field.  Yet others say the problem isn't that the 90' field is too big it's that the LL (majors) field is too small which is a very interesting argument.

Many years ago when I play ball at this age there was no juniors division of LL so I played in Pony but I think the base paths were 75', might have been 80'.  Personally I think it was a great transition for 2 years to play on a shorter field allowing me to grow into playing on the 90' diamond.

Just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on this subject?

[alquista]

Hey Charlie,

The jump from 60/46 to 90/60.5 is a bit huge.  I refer back to the intent of LL and keep it simple.  This should help guide you in your decision.  I can, like many before and after me, make it complicated though.

In my 46 year career on the diamond covering 29 states and 4 countries this argument surfaces almost everywhere (players/family's, coaches, umpires, parents, field maintainers, organizers, etc).  Decisions have trickled down and up and all around between charters. 

From personally coaching this age group (LL, Koufax, CYO and various other organizations) I agree one year of transition would help tremendously.   On average, for 13 YO's, it appears running speed, batting reflexes, pitching velocity, infield and outfield arms and the 80/54 yard are a much better fit.

Transitioning is best achieved at the end of your 13 yo year (after playoffs); fall ball is perfect for the jump up.  Most leagues are relaxed and laid back and alot of fun can be had on the field.   

The obvious drawbacks are limited fields for practice and playing at 54/80 (competing with other organizations) and differing playoff dimensions under current LL rules.

With respect to this topic only: Koufax has it 'dead on'.  After 46/60, go to 54/80 (playoffs and national standard) for one year then 60.5/90.  Abort changing in mid-season; this messes with everybody and will change the time duration of games; parents care here.  Again transitioning in fall ball is very helpful.  Then preparing the future 14 YO through winter workouts and private lessons are better defined.  Spring turnouts are much better framed by coaches and players.

As a coach this feels right.  As a coach the 'realtime' thinking is more respective to the natural tactics of MLB ball as lead-offs, pitching from the stretch, bunting and balks are practiced and refined.  THIS IS A FUN YEAR!

As an umpire, for Pete's sake, we should be flexible, open and willing to offer ourselves to the natural growth of youth just like parents, coaches, field maintainers, organizers and all big people doing big things for younger people.

One more surgery and I should be back Charlie!!  Miss you all.  Al

[kahle]

I dislike the 80 diamond simply because the field umpire is inside the diamond but much closer to batter, pitcher, fielders.  Not enough room to manuver.  But it's not about the umpires, its about the kids. 

I did have one question.  Doesn't the drop-off in Little League sign ups occur between the Majors and the Juniors, before they ever get to play on the 90 foot field?  Wouldn't that indicate that it isn't that the field is too big for the players, because they never experience it.  It could only be that the parent THINKS the field is too big. 

Or perhaps the dropoff isn't related to field size at all.  The Little League rules about grouping teams by geography could be the problem.  Our softball program in Ballard is killed off by this every year.  The local community centers have a large softball program that accepts girls from all over the city.  Since we can only put together a team from within a small area of the city, the girls can't play with their classmates and they choose the community center league over ours.  Also, the Koufax and PONY teams allow for the creation of "select" teams whereas Little League accepts all applicants. These select teams stay together all year not just March to June.   Most of the kids I know personally who continue to play ball after Majors outside of Little League move to these other leagues because they want to play on a select team.

[alquista]

Paul got me thinking about the dimensions of each yard; 54/80 vs 60.5/90.

Even though Ms. Olsen, my 3rd grade teacher, told me to show all my work I will spare you all the trigonometric algorithms and arithmetic sentences (unless of course you insist).

I estimate the distance from home plate (HP) to working positions (WP) B and C to be 94.4 feet or 92 to 96 feet depending on the situation and/or umpire for the 90 foot schedule.

The same distance (HP to WP -B & -C) for the 80' yard would be 84.1' or (82 to 86') depending on situation and/or umpire.

Personally I have never seen an umpire hit on an 80' yard but dozens of umpires hit on the 90' yard. 

I believe it may behttp:// a perception thing but I can't really explain it other than empirically and trigonometrically.