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[kahle]

I read this in the most recent post from Little League International concerning rule changes for the 2010 season:

Adults and Minors in Positions of Authority: Changes were made to Rule 2.00, Rule 4.1, Rule 9.01, Rule 9.03, Rule 9.04, and the Tournament Rules and Guidelines, making it clear that Minors may serve as coach or umpire under specific and limited circumstances as noted in each rule. (Summary: A coach who is 16 or 17 may only serve as a coach if the adult manager and another adult coach are appointed. A person who is not an adult (no age limit) may serve in a game as an umpire, including as plate umpire, provided one or more other adults are also umpires for that game. However, that non-adult umpire cannot be designated as umpire-in-chief for that game. The umpire-in-chief is not required to be the plate umpire.)

It appears this means we could never have an umpire-in-chief under the age of 18  (or is it 21?).  That would pretty much eliminate any of the junior umpire programs I've ever worked with.

[cclark9588]

To say this has stirred up a controversy would be an understatement.  It is going to have an impact on many leagues who have made it a practice to use only junior umpires on the majors and below games.  Interestingly, most of those league also pay those junior umpires.

LL did issue a statement explaining their reasoning behind the rule change.  Some of it makes sense, some doesn't.  Regarding minors (under 18) being managers I can certainly understand that because of the inherit responsibilities that go with being a manager.  Where it does get to be a bit foggy though is when it comes to junior umpires. Their statement (I forget who issued it) kept referring to junior umpires as "children" or "child", which they are, but many saw that as denegrating.  Their basic argument was that there are certain issues/decisions that can only be made by the UiC which shouldn't be left to a non-adult.  I can only assume they are talking about something such as rain delays, suspended games, forfeits, etc.  I'm guessing it's their way of saying junior umpires aren't mature enough to make those kinds of decisions.  One issue they also pointed out was the possibilty of an adult taking an advantage of a youth umpire if there were not an adult umpire on the field to fend them off.  I can see their point and have witnessed it myself.

I'm sort of on the fence with the rule myself.  I can see their point but at the same time I think they are making an issue where there really might not be one.  Does this mean it will eliminate junior umpire programs altoghther?  No, it doesn't.

Maybe LL's real intention here is to force more parents to do what they should be doing anyway and that is to volunteer.  Maybe LL is trying to help league who for sometime have spoken out about how difficult it is anymore to get more parents involved at all levels.  Just maybe this is the stick to beat that carrot to a pulp.  Bottom line with this change should be obvious to all - liability.

[JonGilbert]

So what's the bottom line?  They're not insured?

[cclark9588]

Interesting question you ask, Jon.  My understanding is that any "volunteer" would be covered under the leagues insurance but I also understand that "paid" individuals are not covered.  That's the best answer I have for your question.

Here is the statement from LL that I found online:

Little League International Statement: Children as Managers, Coaches and Umpires

Some leagues that have requested to use child umpires, managers or coaches, in order to develop them as
volunteers, and to augment the volunteer base at the local league.

It has always been the policy of Little League that managers, coaches and umpires should be adults, because it
is unwise to put children in charge of other children in a competitive activity such as baseball and softball.
The reasons for that policy should be obvious to anyone.

A person designated as a manager, coach or umpire is, in fact, acting as a parent of sorts on a baseball or
softball field. In that capacity, the manager, coach or umpire has certain leadership as well as legal
responsibilities for the safety and well-being of the children in his/her care.

Placing a child in charge of other children in that capacity, without the benefit of an adult present and in
the same capacity, is grossly unfair to the child, and to the children and adults they are supervising. Also,
it places the adults – who would allow such a situation to occur – in a potentially dangerous position legally.

With respect to allowing only children to umpire a game, it means they are responsible, by rule, for
maintaining the discipline of the adult managers and coaches. Regardless of a league’s opinion of its current
adult managers and coaches, anyone can see that such a situation also is grossly unfair to the child umpires
in such a game.

Little League International has developed new rules allowing child coaches (age 16 or 17 only), provided an
adult manager is present at the game or other activity, and provided another adult coach is on the roster.

We also have developed new rules for 2010 that provide for a child umpire (of any age), but only if an adult
umpire is present on the field for that game, in the capacity of umpire-in-chief.

These changes in the rules still permit the development of children as volunteers, but require adult support
for the obvious reasons noted above.

Also, while the umpire-in-chief is usually the home plate umpire, we are allowing the designated
umpire-in-chief to be a base umpire, if the league wishes to do so. That would allow a child to be the plate
umpire in a game, provided an adult who is a base umpire is designated as the umpire-in-chief for that game.

These new rules allow children to gain the experience of being a volunteer coach or umpire, while not putting
those children or the children in their care, in legal danger.

END

[kahle]

Regardless of the reasoning, it pretty much kills off the sort of Junior umpire programs that most of our leagues have developed.  In most cases we are using the Junior umpires to increase the number of games we can cover.  If we have a single adult to work a Minor game, that's pretty much all we need.  In a Junior umpire program, we generally replace one adult with two "children".  Pairing them on a game together helps with many of the problems stated and gives them someone to back them up.  If we always require our children to work with adults, that doesn't allow us to increase our game coverage. 

The only other method that has been successfully used to increase game coverage is the use of paid umpires.  The more leagues move to that option, the fewer umpires get developed within Little League.  You could easily end up come tournament time with no Little League umpires.

[twebturner]

I have done some research since this LL rule came out.  In the State of Washington there is a child labor law that covers Youth Sports Teams and Youth Workers. You can read this law at the following link. Anyone under 18 is considered a child and this may be where the term child is picked up by Little League as a legal term as working as an umpire is different than being a player on the team.  The Washington law would also cover other league volunteers under 18

http://www.lni.wa.gov/FormPub/Detail.asp?DocID=2208

Fact sheet: Explains the requirements for sports organizations that engage young people as volunteers or employees to referee, assist or work for the organizations. The focus is workers' compensation coverage and minor work rules.

I am not a lawyer,  but it looks like this would cover both volunteer and paid youth in officiating sports programs,  After looking online at several sites 13 years of age seems to be the lower limit that most soccer referee associations allow youth to referree.  Little League is following suit in putting some information in the rule book for guidance.

This will not mean you cannot use a Junior Umpire program and Junior umpires, paid or volunteer .  What it does mean is that an adult(18 or older) will need to be on the field as an umpire in chief and you may have to follow the Child Labor laws where the person is volunteering or getting paid.   

With the Little League Congress before the start of LL season I am sure that we will hear more on this subject before the season starts.



http://www.lni.wa.gov/FormPub/Detail.asp?DocID=2208

[ross]

Having our Juniors players umpire the Minors division is very successful for filling umping slots as well as a great training vehicle for the Juniors. So I'm not about to give up on our youth umpiring program because of this new rule. While the rule states that every game must now have an adult Umpire-In-Chief it clearly states that the UIC doesn't have to be at the plate. I am proposing for my league that I will train and schedule a youth plate and first base ump. Then each home team must provide an adult to act as UIC and ump third. I will also make it clear that the adult UIC and managers defer to the youth umpires' game decisions as much as possible. We'll see how this works but I certainly want to give it a try. The silver lining is that this will force an adult to come out onto the field and umpire. Could help to gain more volunteers as the adults move up to Majors or at least give more adults an appreciation of umpiring.

[cclark9588]

Interesting take on a "solution" if I must say so.

I curious if you are going to invest some time and train these people you apparently are just going to pull out of the stands, be it mechanics or rules?  From the sounds of your post these UiC's you intend to use won't have the faintest clue as to what their responsibilities as a UiC are.  I think you would be doing great disservice to everyone if you do something like that, especially the players.

[Mr. 66]

Here in Magnolia, I used to like the one we have, but now I've been working to phase down the Youth Umpire Program, meaning I personally do recruit youth. If they come forward then I'll accept them. They do pay over here up to $25 a game per kid. Last season I had MLL president check over our insurance policy and his research/response was that our coverage did extend over the youth that were paid a stipend.

Over here last year, we did have at our youth covered games werid stuff.

Very weird over here, there has been a board member/majors Mgr, the Jrs commisioner and a AAA Mgr make pleas for professional umpires at our Jrs & majors games, and now AAA playoffs. It is sad that these guys think that the problems will go away if they throw money at it. I believe that those who claim greater knowledge should come out and be the solution. One thing that I won't to do is beg other leagues to our games, it just not correct. MLL guys need to saddle up. Fortunately some are stepping forward, MLL president, we have a new UiC, our Treasure is assisting. Some coaches are actually recruiting adults, but most don't think training is needed. They also don't understand the new regulation over the dads out of the stand, and the LL stand of minors in position of authority, they keep asking why why why instead of just following the new mandate.

In reguards to our Jrs, my board told me they wanted Magnolia people to call MLL games. Well, we have 1 guy that has called the games over the last few years, I couldn't get strong enough commitment from him to make the board happy, and they more or less directed me to be responsible for getting NBUA. This year our commish stated that MLL was joining QA and wanted to go NBUA again. I quickly got a hold of Mr. Bowman and QA Scott Morad to see if we could avoid NBUA.

Phasing down a youth program is not going to be an easy task.

J

[kahle]

If you want stories about how weird the Magnolia program is, just ask anyone on the Ballard LL board (they've been dealing with those guys for years) !-]

Paid umpires are not a magic cure.  I'm one of those paid umpires and I'm the same guy when I'm paid as when I'm not paid.  The board that drops the ball and calls out to the NBUA is simply paying someone else a lot of money to recruit and train umpires.  The same people are gonna show up regardless of how its done.  If our leagues have gotten so small that we don't have resources to do these jobs ourselves, rather than outsource the work, maybe we should consider merging?

I notice that rule 9.04 a states "The umpire-in-chief shall stand behind the catcher."  So you can't legally say that one of the umpires in the field is the umpire-in-chief.   Kinda blows Ross' plan outta the water.

[cclark9588]

Paul;

You aren't reading the rule correctly.

Look at 9.03 (a),(b), & (c) again.

9.03(a) makes it clear that if there is only one umpire, it must be an adult who has complete jurisdiction and goes on to say this person can be positioned anywhere on the playing field.

9.03(b) says if two or more umpires, one shall be designated umpire-in-cheif and that person must be an adult.

And on it goes.

All 9.04 says is that the plate umpire shall stand behind the catcher but does say this is usually the game UiC.

LL changed the rules regarding youth coaches and umpires.  Anyone under the age of 18 cannot be a manager, they can only be a coach and as always there must be at least one adult in the dugout at all times which means if a team has an adult manager,one adult coach and a youth coach the youth coach can coach a base.

[kahle]

I see, they have completely rewritten 9.03 and 9.04 since last year.  That's what I get for not keeping up with the rule changes.  So it appears they did this to facilitate the sort of program that Ross laid out.  That means they don't object to youth umpires on the field, just being "in charge".

Now I'm lost.  I can't imagine what problem this change is really trying to correct. 

But remember, it's all for the kids...

[cclark9588]

My best guess is the problem they are trying to correct is Dan Kirby making a mountain out of a mole hill but I'm sure the party lline would have something to do with liabiliy issues.  There are some things in the rule book reserved for the UiC that LL apparently feels shouln't be left to the decision of "children."  Following is something I found online that perhaps might explain they're reasoning or at least give some insight as to the true unerlying reasons.

FYI,

I have just received the following statement from Steve Barr, Little League Director of Media Relations.

--
Little League International Statement: Children as Managers, Coaches and Umpires

Some leagues that have requested to use child umpires, managers or coaches, in order to develop them as
volunteers, and to augment the volunteer base at the local league.

It has always been the policy of Little League that managers, coaches and umpires should be adults, because it
is unwise to put children in charge of other children in a competitive activity such as baseball and softball.
The reasons for that policy should be obvious to anyone.

A person designated as a manager, coach or umpire is, in fact, acting as a parent of sorts on a baseball or
softball field. In that capacity, the manager, coach or umpire has certain leadership as well as legal
responsibilities for the safety and well-being of the children in his/her care.

Placing a child in charge of other children in that capacity, without the benefit of an adult present and in
the same capacity, is grossly unfair to the child, and to the children and adults they are supervising. Also,
it places the adults – who would allow such a situation to occur – in a potentially dangerous position legally.

With respect to allowing only children to umpire a game, it means they are responsible, by rule, for
maintaining the discipline of the adult managers and coaches. Regardless of a league’s opinion of its current
adult managers and coaches, anyone can see that such a situation also is grossly unfair to the child umpires
in such a game.

Little League International has developed new rules allowing child coaches (age 16 or 17 only), provided an
adult manager is present at the game or other activity, and provided another adult coach is on the roster.

We also have developed new rules for 2010 that provide for a child umpire (of any age), but only if an adult
umpire is present on the field for that game, in the capacity of umpire-in-chief.

These changes in the rules still permit the development of children as volunteers, but require adult support
for the obvious reasons noted above.

Also, while the umpire-in-chief is usually the home plate umpire, we are allowing the designated
umpire-in-chief to be a base umpire, if the league wishes to do so. That would allow a child to be the plate
umpire in a game, provided an adult who is a base umpire is designated as the umpire-in-chief for that game.

These new rules allow children to gain the experience of being a volunteer coach or umpire, while not putting
those children or the children in their care, in legal danger.

END


This really is moot at this point and something everyone will just have to figure out how to deal with.

[Mr. 66]

If our leagues have gotten so small that we don't have resources to do these jobs ourselves, rather than outsource the work, maybe we should consider merging?

In a way that is already happened with MLL and QA having a joint team(s) at the Jrs level, we've already agreed to combined schedule service. I have had some very brief dialog w/ QA about the Majors level. I have brought the subject to MLL, but have not gotten feed back.

I have a board meeting coming up, I'm going to throw the subject out there again. It should be an interesting meeting.

[Mr. 66]

It looks like MLL youth umpire program is changing once again, in talking w/ our president last night he has confirmed, we are no longer going to pay our youth the stipend, and will be encouraging youth to come out for communitty service credit for highschool.

This gets a thumbs up from me. Thanks to all, this would not have happened with out your in-puts.